AI Problems

Subsidiary DLC for Capitalism Lab
megapolis
Level 6 user
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:11 pm

AI Problems

Post by megapolis »

Hi David,

I don't want to spawn a million topics about AI so will try to summarize my thoughts here.

First I have aquestion: are you going to change AI? I don't mean bug fixes, I mean significant changes.

Next I have a suggestion. I think that there have to be additional level of AI. Looks like players don't have enough challenge from current AI on maximum agressiveness.

Then I have a list of problems with AI that I see in my games.

1. Once AI has a specialization it is stick to it. Sometimes it makes monsters. For example in RealWorld Mod by Piermario there's a couple of industries that are not profitable at all due to balance issues that will be fixed later. And in every game there's an AI person with that specialization that notoriously tries to run a business in this area and always fails. It should not be done this way. AI should be wiser.

2. Raw materials. Every game I see the same story. Once there is a Seaport supply of Chemical Minerals and later in game Oil, all AIs are using this only source of raw material and inevitably their production stops. It looks especially funny in 10-city environment with 10 different sources of Chemical Minerals in range from $35m to $100m. A company with 1B profit cannot afford a Chem Mine?

2a. Probably not a problem if #2 will be solved. Once AIs start receiving less Raw Materials that their factories need, they start spawning factories of the same product. Their overhead skyrockets and they die.

3. Advertising expenses. In RealWorld Mod Piermario made some industries with low profitability. AI company that was bound to this sector by its CEO specialization researched these products to 100, built a network of Factories and Shops. It got some profit and started to invest all its money into advertizing. After a couple of years it went bancrupt. Nothing stopped it from advertizing its products. Neither debt nor forced firms closure. Nothing.

4. Farms. AI just cannot into farms. (Just like Poland cannot into space if you know what I mean ;) ). I never had an AI that can be my rival in frozen meats. Even in games with 44 opponents.

4a. Farms again. For example AI with Snacks specialty (same story with other products or specialties). Once it will find out that 3 out of 6 products in Snacks requires Strawberry, it builds a Farm. Small farm. With 1 crop unit of Strawberry. In a 4 million city. Then it goes to scenario in problem #2.

5. Media Firms. Now I play a 10-city game and see the same pattern in every city. Let's say there are 3 media firms per city, all with 30+% share. One with $1.5/ad, one with $5/ad, one with $10/ad. Looking at their revenue graph I think that they switch their strategy every several months. But it does not matter. It looks kind of stupid and is definitely wrong. I remember that in my previous games their price was in range of $3-4 and was not so spread out.

There are probably many other issues I don't remember of, but even with this list it seems that we have a problem.

P.S. Maybe I sould have posted it in Release version but now I play Sub DLC beta and see it there.

Cheers,
megapolis
WilliamMGary
Level 9 user
Posts: 1052
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Re: AI Problems

Post by WilliamMGary »

+1
User avatar
David
Community and Marketing Manager at Enlight
Posts: 10967
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 408 times

Re: AI Problems

Post by David »

2. Raw materials. Every game I see the same story. Once there is a Seaport supply of Chemical Minerals and later in game Oil, all AIs are using this only source of raw material and inevitably their production stops. It looks especially funny in 10-city environment with 10 different sources of Chemical Minerals in range from $35m to $100m. A company with 1B profit cannot afford a Chem Mine?

2a. Probably not a problem if #2 will be solved. Once AIs start receiving less Raw Materials that their factories need, they start spawning factories of the same product. Their overhead skyrockets and they die.
Could you provide me with your save games exhibiting the above issues? We will take a look at them.
3. Advertising expenses. In RealWorld Mod Piermario made some industries with low profitability. AI company that was bound to this sector by its CEO specialization researched these products to 100, built a network of Factories and Shops. It got some profit and started to invest all its money into advertizing. After a couple of years it went bancrupt. Nothing stopped it from advertizing its products. Neither debt nor forced firms closure. Nothing.
AI on advertising has been improved in the latest version.
WilliamMGary
Level 9 user
Posts: 1052
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Re: AI Problems

Post by WilliamMGary »

AI on advertising has been improved in the latest version.
Is this that once a product reach 100 brand points they stop branding?
Last edited by WilliamMGary on Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
David
Community and Marketing Manager at Enlight
Posts: 10967
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 408 times

Re: AI Problems

Post by David »

WilliamMGary wrote:[quote AI on advertising has been improved in the latest version.
Is this that once a product reach 100 brand points they stop branding?[/quote]

Yes.
WilliamMGary
Level 9 user
Posts: 1052
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Re: AI Problems

Post by WilliamMGary »

This would be in effect for both AI and your CMO? Like it's not only for the CEO AI its for all AIs regardless of their role?
megapolis
Level 6 user
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:11 pm

Re: AI Problems

Post by megapolis »

David wrote:
2. Raw materials. Every game I see the same story. Once there is a Seaport supply of Chemical Minerals and later in game Oil, all AIs are using this only source of raw material and inevitably their production stops. It looks especially funny in 10-city environment with 10 different sources of Chemical Minerals in range from $35m to $100m. A company with 1B profit cannot afford a Chem Mine?

2a. Probably not a problem if #2 will be solved. Once AIs start receiving less Raw Materials that their factories need, they start spawning factories of the same product. Their overhead skyrockets and they die.
Could you provide me with your save games exhibiting the above issues? We will take a look at them.
I have sent you an email.
Game version 3.0.22B, Mod RealWorld by Piermario v10.31
It illustrates problem #2. I even tried to add 10 warehouses with 7 purchasing units in each but it did not trigger AI to set up a Chemical Minerals Mine.

Unfortunately I cannot find a working save for problem #2a
User avatar
anjali
Community Contributor
Community Contributor
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:00 am
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: AI Problems

Post by anjali »

yeah full on ya side megapolis, mentioned it too often to make another post with the same issue, as i dont want to look like am crying, but i am certainly close to take a gun and shoot me in the head for the stupid AI's ^^

they tackle the deficit on rawmaterials with more shops more advertisement until they go down, but in 3.0.23 i have to say they do much more farms yes, way too less to meet even their own demand. once a spply of seaport stops, they often leave the factories run empty in the hope someone is that stupid to open up a mine and sell the rawmaterials at seaport price (just guessing) and just opening up more factories to produce something else with another seaport rawmaterial.
to strenghten my alligation: i planted farms next to leather factories offerring q30 leather as much as they want at $.5 + $0.20 freight charges and they kept pullling from their current supply for $8 + $1.80 freight charge which was q39 but only got like 20k leather ... you cant run a large leather wallet factory with this kind of supply or any other leather factory. even lowered the price and still nothing happened. they keep pulling from the very same ressource until it disappears, only then they look for supply. even when owned 75% of corporation planted mines/farms (owned by this very same corporation) close to the factories and they still dont switch from the overstretched seaport/other ressource, has to be done manually.

once you get this high technology companies for a few pennies, you suplly them with rawmaterials and like in my last aquisition ($73million aquisition for 95% shares) and after 2 years the companys stock is $8 billion ($1.9 billion net worth) because the corp is pulling 600m anually and raising. all i did was openening up mines and replace the stores the corp closed down when out of cash to keep advertisement on high levels and i did drop the advertisement to 150k/town/product. stuff the A.I. could have done and there would have been no way to afford a takeover as my own company isnt worth a penny without the shares on this company ($8.1 billion market cap and the shares i hold on my sub are 7.6billion)
if i d enough cash i could takeover half the corporations for pennies and make them instantly multibillion corporations

the only thing A.I.s are doing really really good now since 3.0.23 is retailing, have some with over 50 shops and huge profit, but, aslong the producing corporations are not improved, this isnt a competition as they gonna go down once i take over the producing corporations.

yes i noticed the media change as well, since 3.0.23 they charge like hell for advertisement ranging from $1.20 to $10 per cpm
i dont advertise at all with my own company (rangebrand) and only noticed it due to the takeovers.
also seem all tech/realestate/media corps gone since 3.0.20 its only consumer corporations now, so the stockmarket only needs 2 windows which there are "all stock" and "owned stocks". but diversified companies do invest in media and properties quite frequently
User avatar
David
Community and Marketing Manager at Enlight
Posts: 10967
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 408 times

Re: AI Problems

Post by David »

also seem all tech/realestate/media corps gone since 3.0.20 its only consumer corporations now, so the stockmarket only needs 2 windows which there are "all stock" and "owned stocks". but diversified companies do invest in media and properties quite frequently
I tested it and I didn't have the same problem with the latest version. Please see the attached screenshot.

What are your new game settings?
Attachments
companies.jpg
companies.jpg (420.17 KiB) Viewed 1768 times
companies.jpg
companies.jpg (420.17 KiB) Viewed 1768 times
User avatar
anjali
Community Contributor
Community Contributor
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:00 am
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: AI Problems

Post by anjali »

i gonna try with the V3.1.0 but my script was never changed regarding business focus of corps
script states
Number of Competitors=50
Retail Focused Companies=8
Stock Focused Companies=2
Real Estate Focused Companies=4
Tech Focused Companies=6
Media Focused Companies=1
Diversified Companies=29
thats total 50 but ingame there only show up 35 companies since v3.0.20 and its the exact same script i used before
Post Reply