Capitalism 2 and Capitalism Lab Forum

Privatized universities, privatized high schools, privatized elementary schools, privatized police stations, privatized fire stations, privatized gymnasiums, privatized museums. Ayn Rand's daydream.

If factories and retail stores can be nationalized, why can't public facilities be privatized? Surely even more perfect would be the simultaneous privatization of public facilities and the channeling of money collected from high VAT/personal income taxes through state-owned enterprises to private enterprises, aka public-private partnerships/neoliberalism.

Edit: It would be nice to be able to scam investors out of their money by selling shares in crap growth (aka no profits) companies. Stock investors in the game are too rational to even pay a lot for companies that fail to turn a profit and has a high P/B ratio, nothing like how people treat Tesla and GME in reality.

Edit2: There should be a general sense of welfare based on population rather than the number of unemployed.

I don't think that scamming or fraud should be a part of the game. Even if it is a real life phenomenon that has big effects on the economy I think it very much should not be a part of the ethos of the game (nor for that matter, real life, it is a crime in many cases). Not to mention the difficulty of modelling it (it is a game over when you get busted?).

Privatisation of government services though? Eh, maybe. There is already a mod, Capitalism World which simulates private airports, hospitals, colleges, etc (as Service Firms) but perhaps having an option to privatise government services would be an interesting concept.

Basically you could have the local city government paying a certain amount for the services and contracting it out to private companies, the aim then would be to keep costs down so that you could turn a profit. In some industries you could perhaps add your own private services like private health insurance, private education and so on.

Also I think Population Welfare is already simulated in CES as Quality of Life.

Stylesjl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:55 pm I don't think that scamming or fraud should be a part of the game. Even if it is a real life phenomenon that has big effects on the economy I think it very much should not be a part of the ethos of the game (nor for that matter, real life, it is a crime in many cases). Not to mention the difficulty of modelling it (it is a game over when you get busted?).

Privatisation of government services though? Eh, maybe. There is already a mod, Capitalism World which simulates private airports, hospitals, colleges, etc (as Service Firms) but perhaps having an option to privatise government services would be an interesting concept.

Basically you could have the local city government paying a certain amount for the services and contracting it out to private companies, the aim then would be to keep costs down so that you could turn a profit. In some industries you could perhaps add your own private services like private health insurance, private education and so on.

Also I think Population Welfare is already simulated in CES as Quality of Life.

For example, fraud is modeled as a common behavior in Wallstreetraider, and you can choose to commit evil acts as often as you like, only to potentially pay a monetary price for it, even if the game is still too unrealistic about the too high chance of being caught and the too high costs (or even the too high benefits). Just like in reality, basically the punishment consists only of a small fine. Apparently you can run your economic empire from prison, so don't even bother modeling criminal penalties.

Also, your idea of "the spirit of the game" is "you have to get rich legally"? It doesn't seem like that exists in reality. Because the reality is that public companies are all guilty of egregious accounting irregularities and securities fraud.

Benefits in a general sense means benefits that are not based on the number of unemployed people, such as pensions, SNAP, etc.

Stylesjl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:55 pm I don't think that scamming or fraud should be a part of the game. Even if it is a real life phenomenon that has big effects on the economy I think it very much should not be a part of the ethos of the game (nor for that matter, real life, it is a crime in many cases). Not to mention the difficulty of modelling it (it is a game over when you get busted?).

xactly i am totally with ya. this game is to simulate the economic system as it should be by obeying the law in theory, and if i got it right, even universities are using it. which will stop because they can not support this simulation as real and say in public oh well it is common practice to scam, officially those big companies do absolutely all after the book. i wont go into details about using loopholes in real life which is NOT fraud because for calling it fraud the individual in question must be found guilty by a court, until then its some form of creative accounting or whatever you want to call it.

anjali wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 4:44 pm

Stylesjl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:55 pm I don't think that scamming or fraud should be a part of the game. Even if it is a real life phenomenon that has big effects on the economy I think it very much should not be a part of the ethos of the game (nor for that matter, real life, it is a crime in many cases). Not to mention the difficulty of modelling it (it is a game over when you get busted?).

xactly i am totally with ya. this game is to simulate the economic system as it should be by obeying the law in theory, and if i got it right, even universities are using it. which will stop because they can not support this simulation as real and say in public oh well it is common practice to scam, officially those big companies do absolutely all after the book. i wont go into details about using loopholes in real life which is NOT fraud because for calling it fraud the individual in question must be found guilty by a court, until then its some form of creative accounting or whatever you want to call it.

First, the fact that a sentence has not been legally pronounced does not mean that it is not a crime in law: the absence of punishment does not mean that it is not a crime.

Crime: An action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law.

It is not "punished by law" as you claimed "NOT fraud because for calling it fraud the individual in question must be found guilty by a court, until then its some form of creative accounting or whatever you want to call it" (just insanely laughable daydreaming about the real world lol). It only has to be "punishable". Changing the meaning of words to insist your debunked ideas is just cheating yourself and others.

Second, the definition of fraud is not limited to what is legally recognized as fraud.

Fraud: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Be careful of the "wrongful" and "or" parts, you do love mental gymnastics and distorting words, facts & reality.

Third, people in the game can already make serious transfers of profit by controlling the government (it's an easy way to make a profit at any level of difficulty), whereas in reality it's theoretically a crime, albeit not always punishable, but still fraud and guilt. Again, you do love mental gymnastics and distorting words, facts & reality.

Fourth, your"should" presupposes that the system is designed to benefit society, not the current egregious practices that it is designed to do.

Of course, I'm sure you'll agree that Bin Laden, Baghdadi and Hitler were not captured and convicted, and therefore are not terrorists and have committed no crimes at all, but have only engaged in "creative propaganda", "creative warfare" and "creative soap making", LOL

anjali wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 4:44 pm

Stylesjl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:55 pm I don't think that scamming or fraud should be a part of the game. Even if it is a real life phenomenon that has big effects on the economy I think it very much should not be a part of the ethos of the game (nor for that matter, real life, it is a crime in many cases). Not to mention the difficulty of modelling it (it is a game over when you get busted?).

xactly i am totally with ya. this game is to simulate the economic system as it should be by obeying the law in theory, and if i got it right, even universities are using it. which will stop because they can not support this simulation as real and say in public oh well it is common practice to scam, officially those big companies do absolutely all after the book. i wont go into details about using loopholes in real life which is NOT fraud because for calling it fraud the individual in question must be found guilty by a court, until then its some form of creative accounting or whatever you want to call it.

Of course, I'm sure you'll agree that Bin Laden, Baghdadi and Hitler were not captured and convicted, and therefore are not terrorists and have committed no crimes at all, but have only engaged in "creative propaganda", "creative warfare" and "creative soap making", LOL

i did try to say it as neutral as possible, because the moment i say company xx does this and this crime which we all know happens, theres a good chance that i find myself in court for false accusations and they gonna be happy to rip me off everything i have. we dont need to pay taxes at all even though its only 10% but if you hit more then about 32.000 usd profit you got to pay this 10% on everything above it, unless you open up another company and transfer some of the profits to this new company then you have another 32k tax free so with 5 companies + your own and your partners line of tax free income you can already get more then 200k usd tax free ... not enough? open up more companies every company another 32k usd free. and here you just go to your supplier at the end of the month and say .. i need a bill ... with xxx $ for this month. and you ll get it so we got ourselfs unlimited ways of tax evasion if we want it and you dont have much work with accounting as you really dont need to keep every damn bill and spend hours of putting it all together for a proper tax report. thats common practice.

anjali wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 2:48 am i did try to say it as neutral as possible, because the moment i say company xx does this and this crime which we all know happens, theres a good chance that i find myself in court for false accusations and they gonna be happy to rip me off everything i have. we dont need to pay taxes at all even though its only 10% but if you hit more then about 32.000 usd profit you got to pay this 10% on everything above it, unless you open up another company and transfer some of the profits to this new company then you have another 32k tax free so with 5 companies + your own and your partners line of tax free income you can already get more then 200k usd tax free ... not enough? open up more companies every company another 32k usd free. and here you just go to your supplier at the end of the month and say .. i need a bill ... with xxx $ for this month. and you ll get it so we got ourselfs unlimited ways of tax evasion if we want it and you dont have much work with accounting as you really dont need to keep every damn bill and spend hours of putting it all together for a proper tax report. thats common practice.

As you said in your example, it's not only being caught that's illegal, and it's not only illegal that's fraud.

But I didn't ask you to talk about specific companies, and your statement is defending them, not being neutral.